Fudging The Law
Situation:
(Quick answers at base)
An unemployed person contacts UnitedPeople that has been put into JobPath. They are quite willing to use the opportunity to try increase their chances for employment. As per the declaration they signed when first applying for Social Welfare payments due to their unemployed status, they are:
(a) Fit for work
(b) Available for work
(c) Actively seeing work.
Enrolled in the JobPath setup, they come face to face with a person from it who makes a number of demands from them. The JobPath person says that:
(a) questions must be answered.
(b) Information must be given about ex-employers and their contact details.
(c) The unemployed person MUST sign a PPP (Personal Progress Plan).
(d) The unemployed person, if they gain a job, MUST give details of it, including details of employer, etc, to JobPath staff.
The unemployed person has a number of concerns. The JobPath staff members says that the PPP is just an "agreement" between the staff member - not the private company operating JobPath - and the unemployed person. The unemployed person is told:
(a) They must all questions be answered?
(b) They wonder do they have to give all details to the JobPath staff member?
(c) Can they be forced to sign or oral agree to the contents of a PPP?
The unemployed person with concerns and a possessed with a little bit of legal knowledge, writes to the Department of Social Welfare. They gain the following (below) response:
The above letter confirms a number of things that UnitedPeople has been long saying. Things UnitedPeople and only UnitedPeople has been saying - that other parties in government and opposition refuse to say to individuals involved or even expose to the general public. Why? Good question...
We shall be getting to the contents of the above letter shortly.
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Let's begin to get to the heart of the matter.
- Specific importance should be given to the words in bold.
After Jeff Rudd's five years (seven days a week - going to the Dublin highcourts and speaking to a PAC in the Oireachtas, giving evidence) of deep investigation of the #JobPath setup, the government rights abusive, mega cost to the taxpayer, crime hiding racket that is JobPath, is still quietly continuing. The mega crime filled racket is still quietly putting out inaccurate lies.
The following is one of them. They state in emails to pressganged people:
"Agreement to a PPP is mandatory for persons referred to any of the Activation Services provided by the DSP, including the JobPath service."
This is WRONG. Anyone saying this are bluntly lying, attempting to mislead for the sake of company profit or very badly uninformed, employed by people above them who refuse to state the correct legal situation.
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Agreement to a PPP is an obligation asked by the Social Welfare (S.W.) Department (as part of the "engagement" process with S.W) in order to still qualify for benefits which a person gains by agreeing with them to be:
1. Fit for work.
2. Available for work and
3. Actively seeking work.
It is not mandatory to sign or agree to a PPP between a citizen of Ireland and a private company such as Seetec and Turas Nua.
The heads of both companies having have confirmed their "PPP" is a form of legal contract. Their words - stated under oath each time.
- * Stated and clarified in a Dublin Highcourt by the S.W. Department to a judge in a sworn affidavit.
- * Stated under oath to a Public Accounts Committee by company heads and again, a top Social Welfare department representative.
Even in the above as you can read, the (Dep't of S.W.) state that in Social Welfare Acts there is NOT the insertion of a penalty rate or the right to impose any part of a nine week disqualification rate.
It is just NOT THERE.
In the sworn affidavit document that they gave up to a highcourt judge, they try to make out that they are doing the claimant (Damien Fagan) a favour by letting him off without punishment. That might be nice of them if they were even allowed to impose a punishment on anyone for NOT signing - BUT THEY ARE NOT. That legal right does not appear in any law.
Why?
...Because Irish and EU business contract law alone (as well as standard established Tort criminal law) states that no person can be forced into a business contract - never mind also by intimidation, bullying, etc - and this includes the threat of being financially cut off!
"Sign or you will or might be cut off?" ...BLACKMAIL ...Illegal threats ...attempted coercion... Both the person attempting such a thing and their company, can be each tried to be held, to legal account in prosecuting courts of Ireland.
...But for the average unknowing person sucked into JobPath, they are NOT TOLD ALL THIS and the Department of Social protection and the private companies running JobPath don't want to disclose this, if they can help it!
They can't bully - intimidate - be coercive more effectively, if their do!
So, from the very start, they hide these full facts from state pressganged and those actually willing to still use the JobPath recommendations beyond being trapped into a private contract with a private company.
LET'S BE CLEAR HERE.
No law, Bill or other piece of legal legislation, social welfare or otherwise, exists that stipulate that a PPP (contract) is mandatory for persons referred to any of the PRIVATE COMPANIES provided by the DSP, including those operating the JobPath service for them.
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* YOU ARE NOT LEGALLY OBLIGATED TO AGREE OR SIGN TO A PPP CREATED OR PASSED ONTO YOU BY ANY PRIVATE COMPANY.
* YOU CANNOT BE FORCED - BULLIED - COERCED - INTIMIDATED TO GO INTO A CONTRACT WITH A PRIVATE COMPANY REGARDING JOBPATH AND THE PRIVATE COMPANIES INVOLVED.
THAT IS THE LAW.
THAT IS STANDARD CONTRACT LAW at Ireland & EU level.
NOTE: Some representatives attempt to be 'box-clever' by calling it an "agreement" rather than say what is still is, a LEGAL CONTRACT. They are one and the same in the eyes of the law. Again, their own top ranks have confirmed this.
Any lower JobPath rep' that tries to make out that a PPP is not a form of contract - tell them to go argue with their top bosses who have said on record, something completely different!
* There is an important legal distinction between the legal status of the Social Welfare Department and the private companies involved in JobPath. They are in no hurry to make this legal distinction clear, for their own advantage to be tried gained.
Clearly, elected TD's - especially the government - the past/current Social Welfare Department and the private companies involved, are unwilling to make this legal distinction clear for very obvious reason. ...So they have a false based, coercion tactic.
Between a deliberate fudged sentence stated by them, is an element of truth - but they have also deliberately attached a lie to make it convincing that the legal status of the Social Welfare Department and the private companies are the same.
THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY NOT.
COMMENT: The best way to hide a lie, is to give it some element of truth - in this case to further pressgang people, unlawful coercion or entrapment to a private company and it's tried on demands.
Regarding the long existing tactic of hiding a lie within an element of truth, our consecutive, rotten, corrupt governments do this all the time. day in, day out. It is in part why they are able to fool so many people - with help from devious others and even state media who then at times, continue to spread their inaccurate stated words.
The Response Letter
The response letter to the questioning unemployed person and their concerns raised, is again shown below. It' consists of two pages. We post each page separately so they might be further read easier through some phones or tablets. We have marked the more important points in the two pages by numbers imposed as you will see.
The first three paragraphs state the obvious which the unemployed person already knows and has been told previously.
Point 1. in blue.
There the Department of Social Protection confirmed themselves - in writing - that those referred to the JobPath setup, are REQUESTED to complete a personal progress Plan. "REQUESTED" - not legally mandatory or stated as such, with the private firms. NOTE THIS!
UnitedPeople has been saying this for years.
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Point 2. in blue.
"However, as participation on JobPath is mandatory (fair enough - even if it is a form of rights abusing, pressganging!) for person in receipt of Jobseekers Allowance, your signature is not required in order to proceed with the service."
UnitedPeople has been saying this for years.
So, agreeing to abide by the PPP is NOT mandatory with the private company by signed document (or even by given oral confirmation).
"But why not agree to sign?" You might be tempted to ask...
REMEMBER. The legal rights that the Department of Social Welfare and the legal rights of a PRIVATE COMPANY are different in many ways.
if you sign a contract (PPP) with a private company, you are further awarding them more rights.
* In this case, you are legal giving them more rights over you.
* You are in fact and in law, giving them more legal right to actually punish you if you don't do as they then (after you have signed/agreed) can order you to!
* You are in fact, undermining your very own basic constitutional rights.
* You have been made to agree and sign a declaration against yourself. This is something that has been said to be highly illegal also. It's also definitely crooked and immoral for them to make this occur.
...But the JobPath private companies and the Department of Social Protection are in no way telling you all this - and won't at any stage - if they can help it. It's not in their interest - only to their advantage for you NOT to know! In the sake of the private company - so they can churn out a higher profit - at your expense - as a taxpayer and in human rights, yours!
Talk about a bonus 'kick in the teeth' when you are already down. That being unemployed!
Very devious of them? We think so!
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Point 3. in blue.
"...you are NOT under any (legal) obligation to provide employment or employer details to the JobPath provider."
UnitedPeople has been saying this for years.
It is VERY IMPORTANT to note point 3 - as we will be coming back to it in connection with point 5.
Point 4. in blue.
The Department of Social Protection goes on to explain in great detail how the private company must also adhere to prior established Ireland and EU Data Protection laws. If fact, in the letter, the Department of Social protection states this clearly - firstly by saying "...they (the private companies") are subject to strict obligations"... Yes, just like any other company in Ireland - be it your local, one-off bed store or a chain of businesses.
They too must abide by data protection laws. We restate this because when an unemployed person is asked/told to give up personal data on others, the public should know that this data will then be entered into a private company database. A form of digital storage.
If they (private company) ask/demand that you give up personal details about others, be it names or addresses, etc, ...have you gotten the personal; permission from the people you are giving away details about?
If you have not - remember, this data will be database stored - you could be helping yourself to break not only privacy laws but been tricked into breaking data protection laws too. You will be giving information away about others which those "others" do not know either the situation or of the database that their details are being collected into.
* At this point, we reference the European Court of Justice "Bara case" where judges there alone ruled that it's illegal for even state departments to give away information to even other state departments (never mind, to further other private companies) without informing the people involved or getting their permission!
...But you are not supposed to know all this - and the Department of Social Protection and the JobPath companies won't be telling you. It's not in their interest or profit...
You would be within your legal rights to state that you "...have no wish to possibly break data protection laws by giving other people's information away without their permission obtained first."
To try force anyone to break Irish or EU laws, is yet another highly illegal act, be it by a state department of private company.
" I am quite willing to JobPath engage and quite willing to provide the information you request from me, if and when I gain the appropriate permission to give it away. In this case, for storage within your private company database. Till then, I decline to possible break data protection laws and I should not be forced to do so!"
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Two Further Legal Points:
* Firstly, in the case of Seetec, their main database is UK based - so outside EU laws now or will be soon when a legal clock runs out there. Data already illegally exported in defiance of data laws pre-existing - and consecutive government know this. They have been told repeatedly. They bury this law breaking (and far more) like RTE continues to unreport - along with their elected individuals and heads of departments who won't remedy the situation - or even examine the situation. They fear opening a Pandora's Box where their massive crimes might be exposed to the voting public.
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* Secondly, Although the UK might already or soon be out of EU legal jurisdiction, the residents of EU countries are NOT - so they/you are still obligated to adhere to the EU data protection laws, as are the government departments and officials of each EU state.
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Point 5. in blue.
Remember point 3? ("you are NOT under any (legal) obligation to provide employment or employer details to the JobPath provider")
In this particular paragraph the Department of Social protection gets very devious. Firstly, they state "There is no specific provision in the (Social Welfare) Acts to allow an individual to object to personal data being processed by a data processor."
Got that? Aaa... But hang on a minute!
Where is it in the Acts that you MUST allow a private company to process your data - be it given to them legally or not! Go look in the S.W. Acts. IT'S NOT THERE IN THOSE ACTS EITHER.
...But you're not supposed to know this and guess what? The private companies of huge profit making JobPath, like the Department of Social welfare, are in no hurry to tell you this either... You shouldn't be surprised at this, by now!
But hang on another minute!
Unemployed people are NOT objecting to data being processed as such. In fact, in over five years of UnitedPeople JobPath investigation and having spoken to thousands about JobPath, NOT ONE person has ever said they object to data being processed. It's if they have a right to get it in the FIRST place!
They have repeatedly asked "if it was legal for a PRIVATE COMPANY to demand by threat or polite asking, for data, personal information, etc, as outlined under any possible S.W. Act or other piece of legal legislation at state or EU level?"
No. There is NO legislation that stipulates you MUST give information they demand, to them if you like it or not. Hell, even the Department of Social Welfare part confirms this - remember point 3.
But hang on yet another minute!
If you have not copped it already - there's a great difference between giving information away and THEN it is to be processed. JobPath 'client's" (including many pressganged or not).
To be clear. You can give away as much information as you possibly, legally can. AFTER THAT, it is then "processed".
* You have a legal right to have a say in what information you give - before subsequent "processing".
* You have a legal obligation to adhere to Irish and EU data laws as they pre-exist.
The way the letter is constructed in this point 5 paragraph, it's made appear as if the previous right NOT to give information away, has been revoked and now indeed replaced with an obligation to give it away as part of a processing operation.
* However, the two situations are SEPERATE entities and have separate LEGAL obligations and aspects.
...But again, you are not supposed to know all this - and the Department of Social Protection and the JobPath companies won't be telling you. It's not in their interest or profit...
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The rest of the letter again, remind the reader that JobPath is mandatory under current Irish law. Now, because of many of it's aspects within, from state pressganging, financial fraud carried out, data stealing, export and illegal usage, and much more, the European Court of Justice and the International Court of Human Rights, could and should, have a fiend day with this whole highly illegal, law breaking racket!
...But guess what... You're not supposed to know all this and guess which political parties won't be telling you or exposing it all? Yes, the more silent ones, are also most likely the guilty ones.
Ask yourself "Why are they so silent?"
(Hint: Many have played their part in helping to set the racket up)
Political parties up to their necks in law breaking and/or complicit 'after the fact' by their continuing silence and allowing the racket to continue - at a heavy cost financially, in data rights and human rights...
The Department of Social Protection rounds off their letter by also stating "Data published by the Department indicates that employment outcomes among those who engage with the JobPath service are higher than those who have not been referred to the service. In addition, independent research among JobPath participants indicates a high level of satisfaction with the service."
FIRSTLY: Credit MUST be given to good staff in JobPath. Many are indeed helping others. This, thankfully, has helped people in positive ways. No debate. We thank those working in JobPath that help others.
After that. it has to be stated that by JobPath and state numbers supplied alone. there has been a 93%+ FAILURE RATE by the JobPath setup. The cost of a 93%+ failure rate to the taxpayer, has grown to over €300 Million Euro so far.
Many people pulled into JobPath have told us that when they submitted a negative review of their experience, they were (a) not allowed to have it submitted or (b) coaxed not so gently, into rewriting it.
In the Oireachtas, UnitedPeople additionally submitted further detail proof that surveys done, were at times deliberately skewed to produce more better results for the companies involved. From leaving towns and large parts of counties out, to office records not being able to be included in a final concluding report.
There might be a good satisfaction rate with 7% to 9% of people in JobPath but the other 93%+ that it failed, might have alternative views. Many of those 93%+ that have come to UnitedPeople, have stated they were very unsatisfied. We have spoken to thousands of people in it. Many were and are on their third and fourth pressganged session. Nothing changing.
That said, we strongly urge all unemployed to take advantage of any opportunity given to them, in order to get back to greater employment, be it as an employee or self-employed person.
Situation Answers.
(a) Questions must be all answered? NO.
(b) Information must be given about ex-employers and their contact details. NO.
(c) The unemployed person MUST sign a PPP (Personal Progress Plan). NO.
(d) The unemployed person, if they gain a job, MUST give details of it, including employer, etc, to JobPath staff. NO.
The JobPath staff members say that the PPP is just an "agreement" between the staff member - not the private company operating JobPath - and a single unemployed person. WRONG
If a person working for the JobPath company, is asking questions or pushing a PPP on someone as part of their employment process and duties with said company, they are in legal terms an 'agent' for that company. They are NOT acting in a private capacity.
They are a legal recognised representative of the company. Any agreements or contacts that are entered into via themselves in their company agent capacity, are binding to the company they represent - NOT just to a single, private individual, who also just happens to be working for a JobPath company.
Standard Irish and EU company /business law.
NOTE: If only to keep ones benefits, we suggest to people that they do fully engage with assigned services as legally required. This should be stated to Department of Social Welfare officials when possible and then backed up in writing:
"I am fully willing to engage as legally required"
(All be it a state rights abusing, pressganging operation!)
However, what is said to be "legal required" by others and what actually is legal within the JobPath continuing national scandal, are two separate entities altogether! All of which, often we have found and documented in a mountain of evidence already passed on to a still not, further investigating Public Accounts Committee (PAC).
...And consecutive governments and main political parties simply don't want to further know!
Large fraud.
Abuse (mental and physical).
Assault
Attempted suicides
Data laws broken
National pressganging
And much more...
Their silence is deafening.
